Al Bundy a posé la question dans Sciences et mathématiquesBiologie · il y a 7 mois

A partir de quel niveau l'être vivant devient-il conscient ? Que dit la science à ce propos?

De ce que j'ai compris :

Atomes et molécules : pas de vie car réactions identiques, donc automatiques.

Cellules : vie, car évolution et réactions uniques d'une cellule à une autre.

Organisme unicellulaires : pas de conscience.

Organisme multicellulaire : conscience.

Mais quelle est la frontière ? Y a-t-il eu des recherches physiques, biologiques ou philosophiques sur ce champ ?

7 réponses

  • il y a 7 mois

    La conscience est une sorte de petit théatre intérieur où nous pouvons simuler des situations sans les mettre réellement en action.

    La science fait des progrès même s'il en reste beaucoup à faire encore, et beaucoup à clarifier.

    La science semble pouvoir localiser les zones du cerveau où elles sont situées. Ce que nous faisons est en général piloté de manière inconsciente, et on arrive à distinguer les cas où notre conscience est active ou pas.

    L'enfant pourrait devenir conscient vers 18 mois, alors le hardware (le cerveau) est prêt, et le software (la capacité à l'utiliser pour avoir conscience de soi et utiiliser le petit théatre) opérationnel.

    Cela expliquerait l'absence de souvenir de la petite enfance : le matériel destiné à imprimer les souvenirs n'est pas prêt du tout, ou pas encore bien finalisé.

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    • Alexandre
      Lv 7
      il y a 7 moisSignaler

      Je ne suis pas certain que ce soit le claustrum, mais peu importe. Le principe de non-localité n'est pas nécessaire, et est donc superflu, pour tout cela.

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  • il y a 7 mois

    Je trouve que tu places très astucieusement (avec toute la proximité nécessaire) les termes "science" et "conscience" dans ton questionnement.

    Car là se cache sûrement une part de la réponse. Mais aussi dans les discours de la méthode de Descartes et son argument majeur "je pense donc je suis"

    A quel moment? Lorsqu'un être peut échanger avec son environnement et de façon autonome vivre avec/dans son biotope. Et savoir que l'on est devenu acteur de ce biotope?

    Quelles en sont les conditions essentielles?

    Posséder la puissance neurale et les outils biologiques suffisamment développés (SNS et SNP) (système sensoriel) pour échanger librement dans son champ environnemental.

  • Anonyme
    il y a 4 mois

    Gov't is killing you with high frequency electricity.Theotokos Virgin Mary gave prayers to "Schema-nun Antonia" on how to save aborted babies from hell. If you pray these prayers diligently, aborted babies are released from hell. On each painted nail there are 40 demons. Smoking is censer to the devil.Using foul language calls upon Pagan deities (aka demons); Holy Spirit departs on 7 meters. People who use drugs see demons who cleverly disguise themselves as ghosts and aliens.America will be last country to switch to Euro (antichrist's world currency). Contraceptives = abortion;using contraceptives for 1 year = 5 aborted kids.Miscarriages happen because of high heels; cesarean because of tight pants (second generation cesarean will be infertile).Unbaptized aborted/miscarried/unborn babies burn in hell for until Final Judgement; if pregnant, keep the kid and deliver at home because kids are chipped using IVs and vaccines in hospitals. Dentists and doctors chip patients secretly. Ultrasound leads to mark of the beast; don't do ultrasound, please. Abortion leads to breast cancer; a demon is released from hell for each aborted kid. Dogs can become possessed; don't keep dogs inside your home [Pelageya of Ryazan]. Walmart has technology to administer mark of the beast to those who have cat bacteria in their stomachs; stay away from cats [Athanasius III of Constantinople]. Next false flag is the Statue of Liberty. Above earth there is ice (hemisphere); when rockets go up they bring ice down from upper sky to lower sky; ice stuck in lower sky will fall on us during Apocalypse. Earth is flat; earth stands on 3 pillars (the Most Holy Trinity); pillars stand on water at zero Kelvin; underneath this ice there is a bubble; and then the abyss. Zodiac is planetary prison of demons; don't believe in horoscopes or you'll exhibit the traits of the trapped demons. Most thoughts and dreams are from demons; demons never do good. Sleep fully clothed; pray the Jesus prayer. Pray to your guardian angel to have normal sleep. Vyacheslav Krasheninnikov was the last prophet before Apostle John (who wrote the Book of Revelation), Enoch, Elijah, resurrected Seraphim of Sarov, and resurrected Sergius of Radonezh will preach against the antichrist. Humans were created about 7525 years ago. Birds participate in time creation. It's a sin to kill birds. Dinosaurs live under our level; they will get out through sinkholes and lakes; to kill them, go for their nerves. Save the birds; but kill the dinosaurs. First dinosaur will come out of Volga River in Russia. Scientists don't see dinosaurs under our level because of radiation. Sinkholes happen because people dig for resources underground and because earth is heating up. Demons grow human skin (from a sample taken during abduction) and put it on so as to look like us. Demons will invite people to be healed inside their UFOs; those who go will be like zombies after. Gov't provides demons with diamonds and allows demons to abduct people. If you're being abducted, slowly pray the Jesus prayer. Don't panic. Demons use diamonds and souls to power their UFO craft. The bigger the diamond, the more it lasts. Demons have 4 UFO bases: 1)moon 2)inside fake mountain Kailash (Tibet) 3)in lake Baikal in Russia 4)in Atlantis which is underneath double ocean floor of Mariana Trench (Pacific Ocean). There are no aliens. Nobody lives on other planets. Airplanes that go down are hit by demons because they need the airspace to fight Jesus. Antichrist is pale with red eyes. He's possessed by Satan since he's 12 years old [Lavrentiy Chernigovskiy]. He flies super fast; deceived people will say: "Christ is here; Christ is there" when he's flying from one city to the next very fast. He wears gloves to hide long nails. He's surrounded by demons who appear as angels of light. Antichrist will trick people that he can do mountain moving and resurrection using holograms/hypnosis; fire from the sky is real because of pollution gases in the atmosphere. Antichrist will have food only for 6 months; then he will feed his 666ed people flour from mashed up turtles (Tavrion Batozskiy), but this won't be enough because 666ed people are 10 times as angry and 7 times as hungry as normal people even though 666ed people became shorter (3-4 feet tall = 80 - 120 cm) because nanochips do function of organs (organs diminish) [Nilus Myrrhgusher]. If you have a lot of nanochips in your forearm, then you will not be able to make proper Orthodox sign of the cross (last mercy for you will be to cut your forearm off). Nanochips are sprayed by the gov't using chemtrails; they're also in gov't food and medicine; so, eat food from your own garden. In case garden is destroyed by ice from the sky, have chickens for eggs and goats for milk (Paisios). Lipstick contains cells of aborted fetuses, dog fat, and placenta; human flesh is in McDonalds, Pepsi, toothpaste, antiaging, anticancer, vaccines, perfume, etc.; that's why you should not be using anything that modern society has to offer. You're better off hiding within a 10-12 people group in order to escape Apocalypse. During Apocalypse, Chrtistians will eat dirt from under pussywillowtree as it's filled with tears of Theotokos Virgin Mary; this water will flee if a 666ed person tries to get it. Barcode is Druid black magic curse; QRcode is Mayan curse; when food is scanned, it becomes dead because laser is a substance from demons. Don't go into a UFO to be healed by demons. Green 666 is given by isotope rays on wrist or forehead when people stretch hands to receive small plastic grey card with no name on it (World Passport). It doesn't just have to be during this procedure (could be anything you sign up for or anywhere where there is a secret scanner); biometrics (fingerprints, eyes scan) or getting picture for passport are very dangerous because they could mark you secretly. Gabriel Urgebadze said that they do it on index finger when they scan your finger. Basically, try to avoid new documents at all cost. Police will microchip and isotope ray people on highways. Chipped people will be influenced by computers to take grey plastic card; but when they do, green mark by isotope rays is given on forehead/wrist. Food stores will isotope ray people too. Antichrist will also release prisoners to mark people. Reject 666 at all cost because it leads to permanent hell. If you're about to be marked, pray the Jesus prayer. Hide with Orthodox Christians to escape 666; leave all electronics behind so that antichrist's minions can't track you; burn documents because they're from Satan. The Most Holy Trinity gives you a name during baptism; devil gives an antiname during antibaptism (ex. Social Security Number). People who die with these Satanic documents go to concentration camp in hell to await Final Judgement; once the BEAST Computer is burned down, souls will be released for Final Judgement. That's why you should give back documents of your deceased relatives back to the gov't so that the gov't cancels these digital antichristian names given during antibaptism by the beast system; or just burn these documents because gov't could get upset and could send demons to mark you because of this outright act of defiance. Prophecy from half a millennium ago describes Final Judgement like this: Jesus was very upset with people who had little boards (plastic cards) in their hands because they wanted discount from the antichrist. Give to charity in the name of Archangel Michael; he rescues people from temporary hell twice a year [at midnight September 18-19 and similarly on November 20-21; pray at these times on your knees remembering the deceased by names (adding "and relatives by flesh up to Adam") so that they are rescued if they're in hell] (or brings them up a level, that is, to a level with less punishment; eventually, people are freed). Feed the pigeons; when pigeons bow down, people are saved from temporary hell. It's a big sin to remember the dead with wreaths (because demons put these wreaths on their necks if they're in hell with their hands tied up behind their back while hanging by their hands), meat, alcohol, sweets, and worldly music. Demons print icons of saints in newspapers so that you throw these newspapers in the trash blaspheming these saints. Crosses on soles of shoes and back of pants are blasphemy. Demons make carpets with crosses and put them on sidewalks so that people walk on crosses. Playing cards mock how Jesus suffered on the cross: clubs (cross on which Jesus was crucified), diamonds (four nails Jesus was crucified with), hearts (sponge with vinegar that Jesus was given to drink),spades (spear with which Jesus was pierced).Cremation is devil worship; only blasphemers such as Lenin should be burned; if Lenin is buried, earth will be polluted, and China will attack Russia because of this.After China attacks Russia, Ruski Orthodox Tsar (shown by resurrected Seraphim of Sarov) will come to power in Russia;this Tsar will slay traitors inside church and gov't; as a result, Russia will be the only country not under the antichrist.Ecumenism = 263 heresies;each heresy leads to hell. In 2006 in Moscow (that's why Moscow will sink),representatives from most religions signed a document where it says that all religions worship the same Supreme Being [aka the devil]. Priests who participate in ecumenism will have Pagans walking on their heads in hell. Arkhimandrite Antonin Kapustin left a prophecy that Church of All Russian Saints in Gorny Monastery, Ein Karem, Israel will be blessed by forerunner of antichrist; Patriarch Kirill of Russia and Mark of Berlin blessed this church in 2007. When priests pray for current gov't (instead of praying for future Tsar),Jesus gets up from His throne and turns His back to them. Forgive me.

    Source(s) : Women wear headscarves tied at the front to prevent headaches from sky pushing down and to prevent throat cancer. Mega-tsunami for New York will be 400 meters; then engulfed-in-lava Los Angeles will be flooded too; also, asteroid destroys Gulf of Mexico; only Alaska, Eurasia, and Africa remain (obviously without coasts). 1st big earthquake in Russia; 2nd bigger one in China (will be split in half; radiation!); 3rd biggest will be in the USA (Greek Orthodox monk Elidiy from Africa); forgive me.
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  • Anonyme
    il y a 7 mois

    Bergson réfléchissait déjà sur le sujet

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  • il y a 7 mois

    D'abord, qu'est-ce que la conscience ? Et quelle conscience ?

    Nous cherchons chez les animaux s'ils ont une conscience de soi, et nous avons pu le montrer chez certains mammifères. Mais les autres animaux, moins développés qui ne passent pas ce test mais néanmoins manifestement intelligents, sont-ils conscients ?

    La définition fait appel aux notions de connaissance de l'environnement extérieur, de l'existence ou la réalité d'une chose, mais d'une connaissance MENTALE.

    Si on s'arrêtait au début de la définition, alors une cellule serait consciente puisque'elle doit savoir faire la différence entre son intérieur et le monde extérieur où elle tire sa nourriture mais duquel aussi elle doit se défendre. Bien entendu cette connaissance est bien limitée en nature, distance et mémoire.

    Mais comme il s'agit de représentation mentale, cela ne peut donc se faire que dans un organisme pluricellulaire doté d'un cerveau, à minima.

    Est-ce que cela suffit ? Un insecte n'a pas vraiment de cerveau mais des ganglions, donc a priori ils sont hors course. Il y a des oiseaux qui ont une conscience de soi il me semble, et au pire à voir comment certains sont capables de manipuler leur environnement ou des outils, ils ont manifestement une conscience.

    Et les reptiles ? Là encore ils sont capables de se repérer dans leur environnement, d'interagir, de chasser des proies et sont bien doter d'un cerveau. Donc logiquement ils sont conscients, non ?

  • Anonyme
    il y a 7 mois

    Oui c’est vrai ça c’est ce que je me demandais aussi

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  • Anonyme
    il y a 7 mois

    Les insectes sont sans doute un stade qui est intéressant, ils apprennent au cours de leurs vies mais de la à parler conscience, c'est ambigu.

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